homosexuals and the church and the how christians need to change

I have had this thought in the back of my head lately on the whole subject that has thrown the mainstream christianity in a spin.....and it is homosexuals and the church!!!!

how as christians are we to react to this issue? and how do treat homosexuals?

Should they be allowed in the church? And can they be "christian" and be "gay"?

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as christians, we all know what the bible says about gay realtionships.........we all know that it is wrong and it is a sinful act.......like any other sexual sin, it is of the flesh and it is a lustful act, which God says is wrong.......Romans chapter 1 verses 26-27 talks about these things and calls it perversion!!!

but as chirstian we are told by God not to pass judgement on anyone!!
(Rom 2:1) Do you, my friend, pass judgment on others? You have no excuse at all, whoever you are. For when you judge others and then do the same things which they do, you condemn yourself.

(Rom 2:2) We know that God is right when he judges the people who do such things as these.

(Rom 2:3) But you, my friend, do those very things for which you pass judgment on others! Do you think you will escape God's judgment?

(Rom 2:4) Or perhaps you despise his great kindness, tolerance, and patience. Surely you know that God is kind, because he is trying to lead you to repent.

(Rom 2:5) But you have a hard and stubborn heart, and so you are making your own punishment even greater on the Day when God's anger and righteous judgments will be revealed.

(Rom 2:6) For God will reward each of us according to what we have done.

(Rom 2:7) Some people keep on doing good, and seek glory, honor, and immortal life; to them God will give eternal life.

(Rom 2:8) Other people are selfish and reject what is right, in order to follow what is wrong; on them God will pour out his anger and fury.

(Rom 2:9) There will be suffering and pain for all those who do what is evil, for the Jews first and also for the Gentiles.

(Rom 2:10) But God will give glory, honor, and peace to all who do what is good, to the Jews first and also to the Gentiles.

(Rom 2:11) For God judges everyone by the same standard.

(Rom 2:12) The Gentiles do not have the Law of Moses; they sin and are lost apart from the Law. The Jews have the Law; they sin and are judged by the Law.

(Rom 2:13) For it is not by hearing the Law that people are put right with God, but by doing what the Law commands.

(Rom 2:14) The Gentiles do not have the Law; but whenever they do by instinct what the Law commands, they are their own law, even though they do not have the Law.

(Rom 2:15) Their conduct shows that what the Law commands is written in their hearts. Their consciences also show that this is true, since their thoughts sometimes accuse them and sometimes defend them.

(Rom 2:16) And so, according to the Good News I preach, this is how it will be on that Day when God through Jesus Christ will judge the secret thoughts of all.

(Rom 2:17) What about you? You call yourself a Jew; you depend on the Law and boast about God;

(Rom 2:18) you know what God wants you to do, and you have learned from the Law to choose what is right;

(Rom 2:19) you are sure that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in darkness,

(Rom 2:20) an instructor for the foolish, and a teacher for the ignorant. You are certain that in the Law you have the full content of knowledge and of truth.

(Rom 2:21) You teach others---why don't you teach yourself ? You preach, "Do not steal"---but do you yourself steal?

(Rom 2:22) You say, "Do not commit adultery"---but do you commit adultery? You detest idols---but do you rob temples?

(Rom 2:23) You boast about having God's law---but do you bring shame on God by breaking his law?

(Rom 2:24) The scripture says, "Because of you Jews, the Gentiles speak evil of God."

(Rom 2:25) If you obey the Law, your circumcision is of value; but if you disobey the Law, you might as well never have been circumcised.

(Rom 2:26) If the Gentile, who is not circumcised, obeys the commands of the Law, will not God regard him as though he were circumcised?

(Rom 2:27) And so you Jews will be condemned by the Gentiles because you break the Law, even though you have it written down and are circumcised; but they obey the Law, even though they are not physically circumcised.

(Rom 2:28) After all, who is a real Jew, truly circumcised? It is not the man who is a Jew on the outside, whose circumcision is a physical thing.

(Rom 2:29) Rather, the real Jew is the person who is a Jew on the inside, that is, whose heart has been circumcised, and this is the work of God's Spirit, not of the written Law. Such a person receives praise from God, not from human beings.

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now this my point of view and some people will not agree........but i believe you can be gay and be christian!!!! but not a practicing homosexual, if he has repented and is trying to turn his or her life around i believe they can be christian......if that person truly repents and follows Jesus' teachings and loves him, i say Yes, welcome to the family......

i also i believe they can be part of the church, even if they are still practicing.....Jesus didnt turn anyone away did he?? NO!!! he loved them....FACT!!! see we christians are so stuck up and stubborn that we forget to love these people.....

At the end of the day, God created them....Jesus died for them......We are to Love them and welcome them with open are arms......and when they come to Christ...we are to be like the Dad who welcomed his Lost Son home with Arms wide open.....

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times havent changed people.....what is happening today...happened in the bible........the gospel hasnt changed....it has still got the same message.......

(Joh 3:16) For God loved the world so much that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not die but have eternal life.

(Joh 3:17) For God did not send his Son into the world to be its judge, but to be its savior.

(Joh 3:18) Those who believe in the Son are not judged; but those who do not believe have already been judged, because they have not believed in God's only Son.

(Joh 3:19) This is how the judgment works: the light has come into the world, but people love the darkness rather than the light, because their deeds are evil.

(Joh 3:20) Those who do evil things hate the light and will not come to the light, because they do not want their evil deeds to be shown up.

(Joh 3:21) But those who do what is true come to the light in order that the light may show that what they did was in obedience to God.


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the problem is....we the church...the so called body of christ...have twisted the message and the bible to suit us.....we have split churchs...and created new ones.....we murdered those who wouldnt conform.....we our idiots......but we still have a chance to change!!!!!!

Love all.....Share The Kingdom of God with everyone.....Jesus is Love!!!!


Peace

Robert

Some quotes from How (NOT) To Speak Of God.....

Here Is some quotes from Peter Rollins Book, that really caught my eye....I Hope who ever reads this, will enjoy them and think about them.....God bless, and Kudos to Peter......


(page 6 - A revoulation of the `how')"This is not then a revolution that seeks to change what we believe, but rather one that sets about transforming the entire manner in which we hold our beliefs. In short, this revolution is not one which merely adds to or subtracts from the world of our understanding, but rather one which provides the necessary tools for us to be able to look at that world in a completely different manner: in a sense, nothing changes and yet the shift is so radical that absolutely nothing will be left unchanged."


(page 9 - The end of ideology pt1)"In doing so they each helped to point out that when we make absolute claims concerning what we believe about the world or God, acting as if our opinions were the reult of some painstaking, objective and rational reflection, we end up deceiving ourselves, for our understanding is always an interpretation of the information before us (wether the raw material of the world or revelation) and thus is always affested by what we bring to the table."


(page 10 - The end of ideology pt2)"In the aftermath of these deconstructive thinkers, it was virtually impossible to think critically about the world without acknowledging that our views have been influenced by such factors as our cultural tradition, biological traits, unconscious libidinal desires and economic position. The overall result of this genealogial critique was a radical undermining of any system that declared absolute authority by claiming to somehow reveal God or expose Ultimate Meaning to the clear light of day."


(page 10 - The end of ideology pt3)"Second, there has been the less popular but deeply influential response of those who claim that we must bite the bullet and forge a new christianity from the carcass of the old, a Christianity that is concerned with developing an ethical way of life based on the teachings of Jesus while rejecting the question of God as an irrelevant absrtraction belonging to the past. Although thes two approaches appear to operate at opposite ends of the conceptual spectrum, they both mistakenly agree that if one accepts the idea that all our theological constructions are deeply tainted by the limits of our intelligence, the influence of our culture and the unfathomable workings of our subconscious desires, then one must necessarily give up on a meaningful faith."


Again Kudos to Peter Rollins on this book. Im still working my way through it...but it is a awesome read and makes you think more on God.....i will post more when it slaps me in the face........peace

God working without Christians

I have been reading Brian Mclarens book "A new kind of christian" for a week and a half now, and tell you what it has really open my eyes to modern day christianity. I am about to write a snippet from the book which really caught of guard and give a kick in the teeth. It made release that we are not in control of God, and God does not need us all the time...



(before i write this snippet i better tell you who the pastor is writing this email to. Dan who is the pastor in the book is writing a letter to his friend Neo, and they are discussing what Dan spoke about at a college to group of students on post modern christianity. This is a chat dan had with one of the students).



Then I find myself standing in line at the refreshment table, and I'm standing behind a young woman with a lot of earrings and I say something to her and she turns around and seems startled and says, "Whoa, you're the speaker, aren't you?" And then her eyes fill up with tears, and she says, "I started crying during your talk tonight. You are the first pastor I've ever met who admitted that Christianity didn't own God."Actually, I hadn't said that, at least not in those words. Then she says, "I want to serve God somehow with my life. I think at heart I'm like a missionary or something. But here's what I know: whenever I get to know individual non-Christians - I mean really get to know them - I am completely convinced that I find God already there and at work in thier lives. It doesnt matter if they're way-out New Agers or even atheists. So it's clear to me that God doesn't limit himself to working in Christians' lives. We try to serve God, but we don't own him, and deep down I have always known that, but you're the first member of the clergy who was, like, real enough to say it. Somehow, hearing you talk about God working outside the context of the 'saved,' I really felt validated."


(I just thought that was a awesome bit of that chapter)

Pauls Leaving Message to the Ephesian Elders......

Act 20:24 But I reckon my own life to be worth nothing to me; I only want to complete my mission and finish the work that the Lord Jesus gave me to do, which is to declare the Good News about the grace of God.
Act 20:25 "I have gone about among all of you, preaching the Kingdom of God. And now I know that none of you will ever see me again.
Act 20:26 So I solemnly declare to you this very day: if any of you should be lost, I am not responsible.
Act 20:27 For I have not held back from announcing to you the whole purpose of God.
Act 20:28 So keep watch over yourselves and over all the flock which the Holy Spirit has placed in your care. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he made his own through the blood of his Son.
Act 20:29 I know that after I leave, fierce wolves will come among you, and they will not spare the flock.
Act 20:30 The time will come when some men from your own group will tell lies to lead the believers away after them.
Act 20:31 Watch, then, and remember that with many tears, day and night, I taught every one of you for three years.
Act 20:32 "And now I commend you to the care of God and to the message of his grace, which is able to build you up and give you the blessings God has for all his people.
Act 20:33 I have not wanted anyone's silver or gold or clothing.
Act 20:34 You yourselves know that I have worked with these hands of mine to provide everything that my companions and I have needed.
Act 20:35 I have shown you in all things that by working hard in this way we must help the weak, remembering the words that the Lord Jesus himself said, 'There is more happiness in giving than in receiving.' "
Act 20:36 When Paul finished, he knelt down with them and prayed.
Act 20:37 They were all crying as they hugged him and kissed him good-bye.

Kingdom living and Job Hateing

i was away on friday night at castlewellan, we were training for our mission trip to west philiy in june.....im so looking forward to working with the kids and meeting new people from a country that i have never been into.....but i am looking forward to working for the Kingdom of God while i am there and i hope and pray that it changes my life for ever, i pray that it leads me down a new path that i have not yet taken.....Dc was leading the training friday and saturday...we talked about Kingdom living and what is the kingdom of God.....and one thing kept coming back to mind....brian Mclarens book the secert message of Jesus....it was one of those books that changed your way of thinking....not everyone agrees with the stuff he would talk about, but it was a great read.....Dc wanted us to discuss, What is the Kingdom of God and how would you describe it to someone? Here is what i wrote down that night
"The Kingdom of God is us christian sharing the love, peace and bringing the story of the love of Jesus to those who cannot yet exprenice it. We are here to bring the Kingdom into the lives of the sick, poor and the broken hearted. Also to bring it to those who have it all, money, cars big houses but still feel like something is mssing. They feel empty inside and need something to fill the emptyness. So the Kingdom of God is the love for the poor. The peace for the broken hearted and the love and forgiveness of Jesus christ for the Rich. And for us Christian to Serve Other with a Serving Heart."



the reason i put job hating in the title is for a very simple reason, i am sick of the shit i am taking in my work. Each day i have to cover up lies for my bosses so they can sell a car to poor custormers. The customers dont even know have the stuff that is wrong with them....and i feel so so angry and guilty each and every day that i have to lie to keep my job.....i dont seel them of crouse...i clean them....but i have to do half assed jobs on them, and they are not cleaned right....and i don not feel right spiritually doing this....2 years now have gone bye....and now i feel it is time to soon move on.....i cannot lie anymore.....i want to do something for God....and i dont see it being there....i am praying he takes me into youth ministry are more deeper into his kingdom through missions......it is all in his hands.....peace